ES vs FHR

Hey all,

Question 1: As far as I am aware, when you take hits that is bigger than 1/16th (i think?) of your max health, your character has a chance to go into a recovery animation (one that is affected by FHR).

Here is my question: when the game determines if you will go into recovery animation, does it base the damage before or after the damage reduction by Energy shield?

EG.

Case 1: I have 1000 health, I get hit by 100 points of damage from an Undead Stygian Doll, but my ES takes away 50 points of that damage, so I take only 50 and do not enter recovery.

Case 2: I have 1000 health, I get hit by 100 points of damage. I go into recovery, regardless of ES.

Question 2: Does ES take off damage before or after Damage red/Magic Damage red by X? (X being a number, rather than a %).

Thanks in advance|||Are you asking for the sake of pvm or pvp? In pvm, its not nearly as important unless you're in HC as you shouldn't be put in FHR much unless you make it a point to get hit intentionally.

Pvp wise, fhr is a major factor (stunlock) but you then have to consider the damage reduction as well as certain attacks giving you the swirlie regardless (like MB).|||Well I was asking primarily from PvM's point of view. I have been playing D2 since the 1.09d days and read a lot about mechanics of D2. This was one of the few things that eluded me, I never built a single PvP Sorc with Energy shield hence why I completely overlooked it.

I was reading up on a guide about a Meph sorc that used only FO and used max block, some FCR and some FHR for safety in hell. I probably won't be using max block due to the complete lack of high block/FCR shields (I am one of those 105% FCR fans), so I am using dual Spirits.

But let's say that I am asking from PvP point of view, I have 1000 HP and I take a 100 Hit. Under normal circumstances, I would go into recovery (which I THINK is 1/16th of total health). Now let's assume my ES takes 50% off, which would happen:

1. Since I still took damage greater than 1/16th of my total health (albeit some to mana, some to health), I would still go into recovery.

Or

2. Since I only received 50 health damage, I do not get recovery period, so ES effectively allows me to take 2x bigger hits before I go into recovery.

Thanks|||The reason I brought up PvP is that pvp changes the dynamics, as certain attacks can put you and keep you in FHR regardless of damage taken. That's what I loved about my Ghost last season =)

I myself haven't read up on the point fhr kicks in since I haven't pvp'd in over a year. In pvm with fcr, your focus is typically damage, so you're typically using those points in synergies and have none to spare for TK.

Without TK synergized, ES loses a lot of its benefit, as mana gets hit harder, and so does the hp pool.

The things that typically put you in FHR are usually going to mana burn you too, destroying your "shield" instantly, and negating the use. Without the max block, and depending how much you've got in vit, you're probably in a bit of trouble.

The ES sticky provides a great deal of in depth info for using ES.

But as far as damage taken putting you in FHR - as ES does reduce the damage taken, you can take more damage generally speaking before FHR kicks in. But the damage absorbed by ES is dependent on gear (any possible integer damage reduction) and point distribution.|||To address the OP's actual question - I'm pretty sure the damage that goes to mana doesnt "count" towards your FHR threshhold. You'd have to take 1/14 of your life (I think thats the number) after ES to trigger the FHR animation

And ES comes before any other mod - before PDR/MDR, before resists, so a little PDR goes an awful long way for an ES sorc.|||Thanks all, that's all I need to know about ES for now

Rest assured, I did synergise ES with my TK, and at the moment I am using a merc with insight. Must say I am rather impressed the amount of damage she can take. She took more damage to kill than the merc :P. (This is in NM though, I think my build has a problem in hell...)

Godly MF Light Sorc

I know alot of people are going to say, nice gear but wheres the MF?

IMHO ill probably find more items by being able to run areas faster than overloading MF and losing damage...

Now heres the gear im potentially looking at setting up my sorc with becuz my hdin is boring, and I see this bot using a light sorc for baal runs in full games, WTF!?!!?

Helm Griffon

Body CoH

Belt Arachs

Gloves Magefist

Boots War Travs .... theres your MF

Rings SoJ x2

Ammy Maras

Weapon Hoto?

Shield Spirit Monarch

Inventory

gheeds

anni

torch

I cant tell this bot-sorcs gear obviously, but I can tell shes wearing shako&eschutas, would that be a better setup?

And I am interested in being able to run areas in a full game with my abandoned sorc that is currently wearing beginner MF gear = full tals, etc..

cuz like I said before my HDin is boring and for area clearing, light > hammers|||I'd rather have a 200 FCR - but good luck on crafting/acquiring that ammy!

You really missed the point I was making about MF in your other thread didn't ya.|||not sure what your referring to but if its the rune drops...

MF doesnt matter..|||If you want MF, use a Blizzard sorc with tal's and run Ancient Tunnels...

Light sorcs are mainly used for running keys / rushing / runehunting, so they will not need any MF.|||if thats the case that will work, regarding runehunting with light sorc...

would this gear allow me to kill cow king or hopefully his light immunity cannot be broken?

dont like blizz, and honestly dont feel like leveling a LF zon|||To OP: That's basically the best light sorc mf build out there, but what about merc? Also switch mages for chances if more mf is wanted, their fcr is not needed. For baal running, I swap arach for tgods and leave trangs / mages on. Try get a single 5 fhr sc for 60fhr breakpoint, even though with merc you're supposed to stay out of trouble. HOTO is way better than eschuta, and griffon is better than shako for effective damage overall.

Merc (Might or HF are best imo):

Eth andy 'fire res / ias jool' or ral

Eth fort or Eth treachery

Eth infy CA or Tresher




Quote:








if thats the case that will work, regarding runehunting with light sorc...

would this gear allow me to kill cow king or hopefully his light immunity cannot be broken?

dont like blizz, and honestly dont feel like leveling a LF zon




Dont think his light immunity can be broken since its too high iirc, but your merc will do the job. Also, try open the portal with another character and then bring your sorc in, since if you kill cow king you wont be able to do cows again. Or else try avoid cow king, but can be a gamble ...


Quote:








If you want MF, use a Blizzard sorc with tal's and run Ancient Tunnels...

Light sorcs are mainly used for running keys / rushing / runehunting, so they will not need any MF.




Blizz is of limited use, you can only run Pindle Meph and AT. Pits are way better than AT (more packs). Blizz is best if you level up a sorc without doing the Nihla quest or getting Halls wp, so you can stick to Pindle running. But light sorc does all of that far better and faster, Tals Blizz is cheaper so depends on player really ...

And its false what you said, Light sorcs are used for everything. Especially mf and boss runs, after keyrunning. (Yes keyword was mainly keyrunning, but I disagree still)|||I already use my sorc for MFing everything that she can, granted she does not have Infinity on the merc yet.

btw I do not want to break Cow Kings immunity, I want to be able to use 40k+ lightning and not kill him|||Quote:








I already use my sorc for MFing everything that she can, granted she does not have Infinity on the merc yet.

btw I do not want to break Cow Kings immunity, I want to be able to use 40k+ lightning and not kill him




Obviously since you state you don't have infinity, you cant break it so you wont kill him with even 100k lightning

But even with infinity you won't break it, just checked and his total light resistance is at 165. But like I said, he could be hard to spot sometimes and your merc might kill him in the nick of time ...|||Quote:








And its false what you said, Light sorcs are used for everything. Especially mf and boss runs, after keyrunning. (Yes keyword was mainly keyrunning, but I disagree still)




They CAN be used for everything, like hammerdins, but are they the best ones to be used for the subject in hand (Mf), no.

Personally, I only use them for keyruns / rushes.

inb4, "Gear up that fishy and start running CS." (To my knowledge the nr 1 way to Mf)|||Quote:








They CAN be used for everything, like hammerdins, but are they the best ones to be used for the subject in hand (Mf), no.

Personally, I only use them for keyruns / rushes.

inb4, "Gear up that fishy and start running CS." (To my knowledge the nr 1 way to Mf)




Fishies are slow / boring XD

Light sorcs are actually the best all round mfers now since they can do AT and Baal faster than Hammerdin now (magic immune issues) without actually having to rely on merc to do the killing (ie just being present wielding Infy is enough). What do you consider the best for mfind then? Nothing beats light sorc imo. Hammerdin is faster in some game areas, but thats about it.

Good bosses to MF?

I have a pure blizz sorc. She does decently well against meph and duriel. With merc, pindle is also not a problem even if cold immune. I also run andy but I'm not a huge fan because of all of the other monsters that are around.

Are there other good bosses to run as well? I know some people like to MF shenk but he's always surrounded by cold immunes. Any tips for other bosses that are good to run?|||Quote:








I have a pure blizz sorc. She does decently well against meph and duriel. With merc, pindle is also not a problem even if cold immune. I also run andy but I'm not a huge fan because of all of the other monsters that are around.

Are there other good bosses to run as well? I know some people like to MF shenk but he's always surrounded by cold immunes. Any tips for other bosses that are good to run?




Diablo is quite easy for Blizz sorc. Merc needs to kill 1-3 monsters while opening seals. Just tele past those normal oblivion knights.

With good merc (Reapers Toll is good merc's weapon for these runs) blizz sorc can run diablo even in full games.|||duriel :o

never even considered running him/her/it

Andy shouldn't be too much of an issue, between a good merc & static most things should die pretty quickly.

Diablo is also a pretty good run assuming you are happy to tele past the CI trash and your merc can handle the CI mobs you need to kill.|||I never even considered doing diablo. I'm super worried about cold immunes but maybe its worth a shot. My merc uses insight cv because I need the mana regen. It also uses an ethereal up'd shaftstop and andraiels helm. Any tips to make my merc stronger besides an ethereal cv insight? I was thinking some life leech would help. Is there anything I can add to an armor or helm socket wise to add life leech? Does life leech even work against bosses? Should I go for a 40/15 jewel instead? Do those still exist?|||Lots of people do Ancient Tunnels MF runs with blizz sorcs, no cold immunes there and good treasure class drops.|||high council are also easy with blizz. only one of them is always cold immune, and occionaly the other bosses can be, but a decent merc will make short work of them.|||Do people run pits w/ orb sorcs? Or is it a waste of time when you can do harder?|||Quote:








Do people run pits w/ orb sorcs? Or is it a waste of time when you can do harder?




Not sure what you mean by you can do harder.

Pits needs a pure lite sorc with infinity or a dual elemental sorc - all three elemental immunities found in there.|||I occasionally run the Pits with my Orbitaller Sorc just to break things up.

Quite a nice run, but then I've always had a soft spot for running the Pits.|||Pits is an excellent run for MFing, its one of my major mainstays. The monsters can drop anything that monsters in WSK or CS can, but they die a lot faster.

Pits is a great run in Chaos games...you get the extra drops from being in a high player game, but you still kill things at a reasonably quick rate.

But pure Orb isnt going to be as efficent as CL/FO at clearing Pits, especially since two of the four monster types there are native CIs

Another Mfing Light Sorc Question

Hey guys, as much as I know this type of sorc is mentioned, I couldn't find any general consensus as to what gear is considered the best. I know the general outline to have a pure light sorc for pvp/countess/etc runs, and I know the outline to have a pure mf sorc. But I'm not sure what is the best blend of gears for it to be both.

My current layout is this.

Shako /w Topaz

5/5 P Light Eschuta

CoH

Spirit

2x Soj

Maras

Arach

Magefist

War Travs

4x Light Gcs

Anni/Torch

None in dex, all in life.

Merc has:

Eth Infinity

Eth Fort

Eth Vamp Gaze

Is it fine just to leave it the way it is and run amok? Or do I need to change something here to have the optimal light mfer?|||You might want to get a griff for the -ELR, I bet it takes you a while to kill anything with a broken immunity.|||Optimal is probably a 200FCR build....IIRC the highest BP for Lightning, as well as Fire, is 200FCR, maybe I'm wrong though...

Otherwise yes, Griffs.|||You can also use a crescent moon instead of the eschutas.|||Quote:








Hey guys, as much as I know this type of sorc is mentioned, I couldn't find any general consensus as to what gear is considered the best. I know the general outline to have a pure light sorc for pvp/countess/etc runs, and I know the outline to have a pure mf sorc. But I'm not sure what is the best blend of gears for it to be both.




There's no exact consensus because there's no exact best. You're balancing killing speed and mf and it ultimately depends on what your personal goals are.

PvP wise, your charm filled inventory is the biggest difference, because one of the main points of pvm is finding things worth picking up.

But for general pvm, you simply have to decide for yourself what you sacrifice for MF. There's no "perfect blend", as what may be perfect for you isn't good enough for someone else.|||I understand.

Is 200 fcr worth it though? I'm not sure how its possible to attain that... I currently switched my maras and shako to a 2 skiller/10 fcr amulet and griffons and I've yet to see how I can hit the 200 fcr with my current set up.|||Quote:








I understand.

Is 200 fcr worth it though? I'm not sure how its possible to attain that... I currently switched my maras and shako to a 2 skiller/10 fcr amulet and griffons and I've yet to see how I can hit the 200 fcr with my current set up.




200 fcr is nice to have if you tele a lot (tower, arcane, rushing).

You can't with your current items, you need to change a lot.

20fcr amu is good start, gives some freedom for other slots.

As 220 fcr is max so you are allowed to 'loose' 20 fcr.

So 2xsoj is possible if you use max fcr in other slots.

You can't use CoH, Vipermagi is only valid armor.

Is it worth? You need to at least try it once, its fun char to play.

I personally want to kill faster ( CM,Griffon(facet),Vipermagi(facet) ), so 200 fcr build is not for me.|||Quote:








Optimal is probably a 200FCR build....IIRC the highest BP for Lightning, as well as Fire, is 200FCR, maybe I'm wrong though...

Otherwise yes, Griffs.




The lightning/chain lightning breakpoint is actually 194 fcr. So I suppose you could use a 2/20 circlet instead of a griff, or a 15 fcr amulet instead of a 20.

In my experience, 200fcr kills much faster in low player count games. You already 1-hit-kill most things so the faster you cast, the faster you kill. This also causes you to pick up those strays that got hit for 1 damage by the first cast faster.

Mikolas, a basic/relatively cheap 200fcr build looks something like this:

Griffon's Eye

10% fcr ammy

Vipermagi

magefists

Hoto/eschuta

35 fcr spirit

10% fcr ring x2

magefist

arach

any boots

You could substitute a wizard spike or suicide branch for your weapon and use Mara's or a SoJ if either of those suited your needs better.|||The point of hitting 200 fcr is also for teleport, if you're going to hit 194, 200 isn't far out of reach. For lightning, no helm does better than griffon's, as most people fail to consider the damage impact of its -elr, even when combined with conviction.|||I agree with what you said, I just wanted to disseminate some information. :P

Yeah, you definitely need -ELR to be effective. If you just relied on conviction you'd have to let your merc kill any lightning immunes or stand there blasting them all day. With griff you can get them down to a reasonable LR and make them crispy critters.

dealing with gloams and burning souls

I just hit nightmare and these things really hurt. I have a few questions about going lighting absorb.

Is the cap for any one element 40 percent? Should I try to get 1 tgods belt for 20 percent and a wisp for another 20 percent?

What else should I prepare for as a sorc max block or another element absorb? My first character was a necro summoner forgot all about the gloams been a long time since I played.|||Are you using Spirit Runeword? If you can make one of those, they have Magic absorb stat that works on Lightning.

Also, Tgod is a number absorb, not a percentage absorb, so its not limited by the 40% cap. The % cap to any element (Cold, Lightning and Fire are the only ones with % absorb) is indeed 40%. But wisp projector has a level requirement of 76, is your level high enough for it?

I am not a very big fan of Max block sorcs because High block shields with FCR doesn't really exist, and sorcs have the lowest natural block rating amongst all the characters (same as Necros, but they have good shields so max block for them is easily achieveable). If you find general survivability to be an issue, I'd use Energy Shield instead, because it works for all damage rather than just simply physical. Do not use ES unless you have Insight though, because it will eat your mana.

If you really want to go max block, I suggest using a really high blocking shield (such as Whistan's Guard, set Round shield) so you can also maximise your health, or shields with Block/Resists (Moser's Blessed Circle, Unique Round Shield, see the pattern? :P). Max block might help you with a couple of acts, but upon reaching act 4 hell, the elemental attacks start to really hurt, and max block won't save you from them, so your last line of defence would have to be resists, which is hard to achieve without some dedicated resistance gear (Wizardspike, skin of viper etc).

It takes more gear to make Max block effective than it takes for ES to be effective for untwinked characters (ones that uses gear they find), which is why I prefer ES.|||Thank you for your post very informative. I am not high enough for the wisp didnt even notice. I will look into the spirit shield too. I have insight but was going meteor orb so not sure if I can get up to es will look into that more. I probably wont worry much about max block then. I think my lightning is at 75resist now but they still put a hurt on me thats why was looking into the absorb.

Thank you again for your post was very helpful.|||If you want to try out ES, the best way would be to make a Memory, preferrably from a staff that already has ES on it, though not crucial. with a modest level 7 ES (thats 6 from memory itself without a ES already on it and +1 skills from anywhere else), you will still have 50% damage reduction from ES.

Be careful of mana burns.|||Short of a multiplayer game, you don't really need to worry about them too much if you're equipped well. When I say well, I'm not referring to absorb, as I typically avoid absorb on sorcs because I find other stats far more important.

TGod's isn't 20%, its integer 20. I can't remember all the math but its on Arreat Summit.

Since my main sorc is a 200fcr pure lite, I rely on offense (and infinity merc) to take these guys down, but my belt is also full of rejuvs to apply as needed. In order to hit 200fcr, the only real spot I can get any integer absorb/reduction is Skin of the Vipermagi.

As you won't be restricted in gear setup with a dual element, you've got options, but I've never relied on the absorb outside of PvP.

Chenw covered the basics with the blocking, and just to reiterate max block won't stop the lightning but will help with exploding dolls. Maxblock on a sorc is more of a pvp or hardcore use.

The big problem with ES is that to make it effective it takes a lot of points, which thus reduce your damage. As dual element sorcs need all the points they can get, it really hurts those builds.|||Hence why I suggested using memory to both try it out and hopefully alleviate a few points thats so crucially needed for ES.

The tightness of points in a Dual element sorc was a reason why I chose Nova/Orb over everything else because it only required 3 skills maxed out, leaving room for a 4th maxed skill with points to spare. The ES was pretty much an accident though, I found a 4os staff with +3 ES, so I gave ES a shot at trying when my sorc only had maxed orbs and had about 47 points left over (Couldn't for the life of me which dual sorc I wanted). I found it to be surprisingly effective in NM and it is still in test drive in Hell. I am reasonably happy with it so far, although it could be purely down to the +9 ES stick I got|||When using ES, a nice Memory is usually expected to save some hardpoints in ES, but it doesn't affect the TK synergy, so to get those benefits the hardpoints need to be placed.

Probably the biggest reason I never liked ES was the mana curse. Combine that with mana burn, its easier to focus on pure vit. I did use ES for a while so I didn't have to worry about elemental resists, but only because the setup was overloaded in MF.|||I'm using Tal's with 1 15%@/5 dex jewel and I have 75 resist lightning in Hell. In NM I have 75 (duh) and I have 974 hp.. I'm lv 75 if you are curious. I'm PURE Blizzard sorc and I have yet to die. Absorb isn't necessary. If you think it is crucial try to get Labsorb on your merc. Have the merc tank and you win. Ofc I'm pulling 8050-8412 dmg per hit with Bizz and 4012-4121 with Ice Blast so even on /p8 I get mostly 1 hit kills. (other than uniques/bosses) Gloams aren't... as bad as everyone says. They are a pain in the *** but they aren't too bad. With practice you will KNOW when and where they will be/strike. And, wouldn't you be teleporting the whole time till bosses? Why would gloams be a bother if you skip them?

Nova/Orb sorc opinions

Currently I am planning to move my FO/ES sorc from NM runs into hell act 1 & 2 area 85's and countess run. Of course, being a FO orb, you might expect that I had a nasty surprise in Hell Pits and Countess when I literally couldn't kill anything in there.

So I have been looking at all of the dual element sorcs in the forums, and have laid my eyes on the Nova Sorc because 1. It reminds me of a standard 1.09d pvm Sorc, 2. It seems to need the least amount of points invested to max it out (unlike compared to say Bolts or Fball). 3. Seems like a fun build 4. I can keep my ES

Before I go into burning the first of my respecs, if anyone could offer their opinions, that would be great. My MF gear at the moment totals +9 all skills.

1. My primary concern about using Nova is that it looks like, on paper, to inflict the least amount of damage per spell when fully maxed out, how does this work on the Countess and her... lackeys? Good enough? barely? not at all? or awesome?



2. Is FO good enough for AT or would I be there forever?



thanks!|||Nova needs to be maxed along with LM for it to be useful in Hell.

But I'd be weary of mixing it with ES as its a close quarters spell and put you at higher risk for mana burn

Orb is fine for AT - assuming you're not running in MP games. The hardest part of cold damage is getting +cold damage% as it will have a more noticeable affect vs plus skills.

Unless you're mfing items for your holy grail, you don't have to focus much on MF at all since its a lot harder to trade off the nice finds for a decent price these days. In deciding on gear setup, don't feel obligated to fit the MF in.

I believe there's a guide for the blizz/nova sorc somewhere, you might want to search for that and take a look for additional perspective.

If you're primary focus is AT, you don't need ES at all as slow moving as everything is in there really.|||my 2 cent.

Nova has everything to do with your cast rate. You need the 105 castrate breakpoint to put mobs into hit recovery.

Nova/fo build is a fun build for sure.

With 9+ skills your nova is gonna do 1025-1389. That is enough to kill in player 1 games (solo games) and esp the countess.

My suggested build for you:

Warmth 1

Ice bolt/Ice blast/Frost Nova/Glazial spike/Blizzard 1

orb 20

CM 8 (to get to -100 after pluss skills)

20 Nova

20 Lightmastery

20 telekinetic

1 static/teleport and ES

A total of 97 points. the rest you can do what ever you like with.

With 9 skills your ES is gonna absorb 69%. If you want you can drop the rest of the points into ES. However, you then need to think about your life to mana ratio.

More about that in the ES sticky on top.

So to sum it up.

You need the 105% cast rate breakpoint.

Life:Mana ratio with ES

Your merc should be able to kill the countess no matter what spec you have with just a insight.

And you should use insight no matter what because of mana burn monsters.|||I am already using Insight at the moment on my Sorc with no plans to change it whatsoever, so that won't be a problem. The actual problem at the moment is that its made out of a non-eth Grim Scythe (which was a BAD idea in about 100 ways), so in my brief trial in Hell, he wasnt leeching enough health and got pounced into the ground by Countess' minions (lack of Shaftstop might also explain it)



I am contemplating on not investing the points into ES, I had a surprise find in pits on my Necro, +3 ES staff with 4 sockets, made a Memory out of it.

I am doing Pits at the moment just for the white/grey/random surprise drops for runes and other unexpected things (Last ladder I had an IK armor pop in AT, sorry SECKSE!, and this ladder I had a Gris shield pop in Pits. Yet I cant find a decent eth elite polearm to save my life... a couple of eth CA in cubes has lead to 6k gold piles...

Getting the 105% FCR break point wont be hard, I already have 68% on me without either Skin or Magefist and i have both, but forgoing Frostburn for Magefist will be hard on the mana. I can use Wizardspike, but as Seckse knows about my stance on Wizardspike :P With Wizzy, my + skills would fall to +7 (Shako, Tal amulet, Skin and Spirit) Hopefully that's enough to keep mobs stunlocked?

While I am here, something strange I recently found. When I was using my Memory staff for the ES (not just the boost, I had to use it to actually get ES), my ES didnt dissappear after I ran out of mana, but when I put points into it (so I could use Gull/Splendor switch), ES dissappears as normal when I go OOM (Out of Mana).. Wonder if anyone seen this before or was I hallucinating from all the Oblivion knights i laid waste to....|||No worries, I got my Ik Armor finally several days back

The non-eth grim scythe isn't THAT bad, its better than no insight at all, trust me.

My builds basically use magefist unless I want the cold res or poison damage from trangs. Frostburns are gloves I like to have in stored in case I ever want to use them. But then again, running a 200fcr lite sorc, I know how fast that mana drains so you'll probably want to keep the frosties on for now. You might as well use the viper. Can't remember what weapon you're using, but a spirit/spirit works well enough if you don't have the hoto/eschuta's.|||I use Double spirit (28%/31%, yum). I guess i'll go experiment some... Shall I PM you for refund if the build fails? :P j/k

The reason why I said Grim Scythe was a bad idea was because my merc couldn't use it till level 72, which by then, my merc would have been able to use elite polearms (Thresher immediately comes to mind).|||Tried the new Nova/Orb build, works surprisingly well against countess, and Pits astoundingly hates me.

After I built the tree up, I found that the pits now spawn with large amounts of Lightning enchanted bosses, which with their inherent Cold immunity, makes me unable to touch them...

Now, my merc should have been able to handle it, but like i said, he doesnt deal enough damage to outleech the damage he has taken, and his armor is MP wealth.

I did notice that my merc was dying to those ranged archers quite a bit. Is that a case of damage/leech or would I also need some %DR like shaftstop?|||Well the level req on an insight shouldn't be that high, I take it the dex was an issue maybe?

As far as pits - you're not setup well for it. AT is actually easier even tho its later in the game. Since the pits have all 3 immunities naturally, and can spawn dual on top of that, only my pure lite makes regular visits. Fire/cold can work well in there, but that's dependent on your mercs gear. Having to switch between trees is a pain in pits though.

Wealth is a bad armor for him since his tank ability is far more important. Cheapest runeword armors would be smoke or the assassin's treachery. Treachery is decent enough that you can use it as end game merc armor, but fort is still king.

Shaftstop is also decent if you have it readily available.|||Thanks for that Seckse, I used Treachery for my Zealot/Smiter uberdin and was fond of it, didnt occur to me that it would work on a merc too...

Now off to find a replacement for that 3os Dusk shroud that despawned on me when i was muling...

EDIT: And you were right about the Grim Scythe, the dex was the biggest kicker. I had wished I'd get a Crown of thieves sometime so I could eliminate that problem. Got it eventually, after he was able to wield it naturally... They never come when you actually need them do they? >.<|||Yeah - been starting HC untwinked - getting a 4os polearm proved to be a pain, granted I avoided re-running areas as much as possible to try to stick to a "single pass" mindset.

As for the treachery, while the last one I made was in an eth for merc, really you don't need to bother as its got No ED itself. By putting it in a regular, you could always borrow it from merc, prebuff (if you want to), than give it back, repairing it once in a blue moon.

Duel Dream Sorc Q

I'll be brief

The build I would be going for is more than likely a Es type; not the "beast" variant since I don't care for werebear much sadly...

I wanted to try out the Duel Dream Build because i've been bored lately but wanted to ask a few quick questions to see if I would be viable enough to deal with hell monsters If I went for it.

1. I unfortunately don't have the luxury of a Infinity; So Would that cause me to run into alot of issues as a backbone of the build to do damage+break immunities; or would I be able to get around it temporarily until I get one?

*I'm aware lite damage from the dreams means alot; so thats why i ask; also being able to hit easier from the conv. aura also is taken into consideration

2. I don't have a COH laying around atm anymore; So would say a Upp'd Vipermagi or a Que-Hegans Wisdom Suffice for a temp. armor until I get something better?

*Ask since I know a decent def armor with ok mods is sorta needed for the build to be able to semi tank while melee'ing,etc

I can get the duel dream without much issue and the passion PB; so that portion of the build is fine; just kinda want to clear those two questions before I decide to invest into the build or not.



P.S- Is Max block advised with this build or can a vita route be sufficient(seen varying opinions on it).

*Should say decent blocking %, not max; but You get what I mean,lol...



Thx in adv. for any help; Really wanted to try something new to Re-fresh my ethusiam :P|||1. Infy makes your life a lot easier; but Insight makes your mana replenish nicely for ES and will do the job for now. Without Infy, you shall invest more into your fire damage (I'd do 20 LM 20 TK 1 ES + 1 point wonders and all the rest to Enchant&Cie);

2. Vmagi is a good armor for dual Dream sorcs;

3. You're going ES, so your attributes are already stretched thin. Dream isn't such a good shield for blocking, so go vita/energy.|||1. I play a pure lightning sorc on bnet at the moment. I can't afford infinity either. From my personal experience, I can confidently say that you'll manage.

2. I would favor Enlightenment or Arkaine's Valor over vipermagi (especially over a low one), because Enlightenment gives +2 to skills instead of +1 and is equally affordable. Also enlightenment adds to PDR which goes well with ES.

3. Duel dream is traditionally ES and base dex. If you feel like mixing things up let me know about your experiences. A Hyperion Dream gives the best base blocking %.|||Quote:








2. I would favor Enlightenment or Arkaine's Valor over vipermagi (especially over a low one), because Enlightenment gives +2 to skills instead of +1 and is equally affordable. Also enlightenment adds to PDR which goes well with ES.




Also consider Treachery to for its Increased Attack Speed and Chance to Cast Fade. This comes at the cost of damage amongst other things, however. Also note that relying on the Chance to Cast Fade can be annoying.


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A Hyperion Dream gives the best base blocking %.




A Tower Shield offers equal base blocking for a lower strength requirement (though it is Heavy rather than Medium).|||Well I just wanted to say Ty for the advice and answers to my questions.

I decided to go in reverse order for now though and just used some wealth to get a infinity first so I can make a Lite sorc to mf with and w/e wealth i get from that can go towards the dreams then.

Regardless, much appreciated guys|||I think you need the infinity because the chance to hit is so low otherwise|||I think the dual dream idea sounds like a really cool build, able to kill anything (just about) and you dont see three in every game you join. I also want to try one but I have heard that blizz made it so dual auras don't stack anymore. Haven't been able to find anything definitive on this (can't find anything on The Arreat Summit for instance). Does anyone know for sure? Ie: you have made a dual dream sorc or other dual aura character *in 1.13* (double dragon paladin, etc) or have a link to a reliable, non hearsay source that says that it no longer works. Also, so I don't feel like I'm hijacking the thread, here are my build ideas:

My sorc was going to be a non ES build - 20 LM, 20 FM, 20 Enchant, 20 Warmth, 20 shiver armor, 1 static field, 1 firebolt, 1 fireball, 1 ice bolt, 1 ice blast. Helm dream bone visage, amulet mara's, armor enigma, weapon phase blade with 4 shael and 2 15res/15ias jewels, dream troll nest, gloves/belt/boots IK, rings probably BK, CTA and spirit on wep switch and beast in inventory to give bearform.

The idea would be to get enough def from chilling armor that you wouldnt need ES so much - I don't like the idea of meleeing mana burn monsters relying on ES. IK pieces are because they add a lot of str/dex and a ton of AR plus some other nice bonuses. By my calculaations this would give you about 8500 armor in bear form which isn't 'smiter with exile' territory but nothing to sneeze at either. You could also throw in a defiance merc but I hear most people go with holy freeze. Hopefully it doesnt seem like I'm bashing your ES idea and hope someone gets something out of this longwinded post.|||Legit aura stacking (like from dual dreams) works exactly as it did in 1.12 :>|||The problem with the dream sorc is usually found in the armor. Its really hard to decide which one, because really it is such an odd build that no one piece has all the mods you want, as seen typically with melee + Chains.

In my opinion, chains is a very poor choice of armor for the DD ES sorc. Resistances are calculated after energy shield has already taken the hits, so one of the biggest bonuses for chains is already virtually useless. Mot of the other mods are also of no help to the sorc, so really you are justy going for it out of habit.

Indeed I believe Enlightenment already beats CoH not only in price, but you get extra points for warmth while maintaining 2 all skills (save for zeal, but you should be able to make these up elsewhere. You only need + 3) as well as some PDR.

However, personally, I think the most overlooked and underrated armor for the es sorc is easily:

The Gladiator's Bane

+150-200% Enhanced Defense

Magical Damage Taken Reduced by 15-20

Physical Damage Taken Reduced by 15-20

Attacker Takes Damage Of 20

50% Reduced Poison Length

+103 Increased Durability

30% Faster Hit Recovery

+50 Defense

Cannot be Frozen

I am convinced some upstart chap at blizzard made this specifically for an ES sorc. These mods, while defensive, just about make it more than worth swapping enlightenment. I mean, huge defense for the strength required, massive MDR and PDR, great hit recovery and CBF to allow an Soj or Dwarf Star on your finger instead of that bloody Ravenfrost.

But the biggest thing here to me is the Poison Length Reduction. Since the resistances work differently with ES, poison is by far the worse thing an ES sorc can encounter. A 50% reduction makes for much safer travels, especially is places populated with Knights, mages, and similar creatures.

This stat soupled with all the others make this hands-down my favorite ES armor. Dual-dream or just lightning + ES, this armor is the bee's knees. If you find you are dying too often with enlightenment, give this baby a shot. (Oh and of course it's socketable, so add 1-4 more mods of your choosing with jewels/runes. IAS + Freedom/Dexterity/Mana/DR)